June 11, 2003 Wednesday

HEADLINE: FACTOR Follow-Up

GUESTS: Frank Louderback, Jeff Brown

BYLINE: Bill O’Reilly

BODY:
O’REILLY: In the “Factor Follow-Up” segment tonight, as you may
remember the “Factor” broke the Sami al Arian story nationally a
couple years ago. And last February he and several others were
charged by the federal government with 50 counts of terrorist related
activity. Basically, the government says al Arian raised money for the
Palestinian Islamic Jihad we discussed at the top of the program. His
trial is set for early 2005.

And joining us from Tampa are his defense co-counsel, Frank
Louderback and Jeff Brown.

Mr. Brown, I want to begin with you. What’s the problem with al Arian
in prison right now?

JEFF BROWN, AL ARIAN CO-COUNSEL: Well, the very fact that he’s in
prison. I think we’ve skipped some very fundamental parts of our
judicial system. We have got a person accused of a crime and has never
been convicted, already though, sentenced and placed in a facility which
houses people that are convicted felons.

O’REILLY: All right. But you know, look, I mean you can whine all day
long. But that’s where the federal judge sent him and that’s where he’s
going to stay. In the prison itself is he in any danger?

BROWN: That’s not what the federal judge sent him. That’s where John
Ashcroft sent him. And I do have a problem that we are sending people
that accused of crimes and placing them in a federal penitentiary.
And not only just in any penitentiary but he’s in what is called the Shoe
Unit, the special housing unit. Which is basically the worst of the worst.

O’REILLY: Yes, but they’re telling us that the reason he’s in there
is because they can protect him better in there.

BROWN: Protect him from who?

O’REILLY: Protect him from the other inmates who want to slit his
throat. Come on, this guy is an accused terrorist. You know what the
emotion level is on that.

BROWN: There is none of that. There is not one documented case of
anybody even saying anything unkindly to him other than the guards.

O’REILLY: All right. So he’s’ not — you don’t believe he’s in danger
from the other inmates. Then fine. That’s your belief. But that’s not what
the prison authorities believe.

However, he’s in this prison. Where do you want him?

BROWN: We want him somewhere either in Pinellas County or Hillsboro
County so that we can meet with him and so that he can begin to
prepare defense, so that we can mount a defense and challenge these
overt acts in this indictment.

O’REILLY: Are there any federal facilities in those counties?

BROWN: Are there any federal? Well, their federal inmates are
constantly kept at the Morgan Street Jail; they kept in other facilities all
through Pinellas and Hillsboro County.

O’REILLY: Yes, but they have the big…

BROWN: Listen, we have the facility to hold people accused of
murder…

O’REILLY: Listen.

BROWN: … so why can’t we put Sami here?

O’REILLY: I don’t know. I mean I don’t know why you can’t put him
there.  But this is a big deal. I mean your client could go to — Mr.
Louderback, your client could go to jail for life here. I mean you know,
this isn’t some rap, a county or state rap. This is huge. You’re almost
lucky he’s not in Guantanamo.

FRANK LOUDERBACK, AL ARIAN CO-COUNSEL: Well, we may be headed
that way. But the dichotomy here is that if he were to be convicted
of a federal felony, and get a life sentence, he would actually be held in
a less restrictive confinement than he is today. Believe it or not.

O’REILLY: I don’t know if that’s true or not. All right.

BROWN: Clearly, it is.

O’REILLY: All right. You have petitioned, I’m sure, gentlemen, to get
him back closer to you so you can work on the defense. Now, 2005 is a
long time for the trial. But you guys say that’s OK. You waived your right
to a speedy trial at 70 days.

LOUDERBACK: No. That’s not correct.

BROWN: No, we never waived any right to a speedy trial.

O’REILLY: What did you say?

BROWN: Never did. We asked for a speedy trial. We asked under the
Sixth Amendment that Sami al Arian be afforded the right to have a
speedy, public trial.

O’REILLY: All right. And so you want a quick trial?

BROWN: Absolutely.

O’REILLY: You didn’t object to the trial being posted in January of
2005?

BROWN: Yes, we did.

LOUDERBACK: We did.

O’REILLY: You did object?

LOUDERBACK: We did object.

BROWN: It was overruled and the judge ruled against us, and set the
trial in January 2005.

O’REILLY: Did you a file brief?

LOUDERBACK: We had a hearing just last week where this issue was
discussed with the judge. We objected to any continuance of the
trial. It’s been the Dr. al Arian’s position all along that he wanted to go to
trial as soon as possible. And we are certainly not happy with the
January 2005 trial date that’s been set.

O’REILLY: OK. Now, have you filed an appeal to that? Are you trying
to get it quicker?

LOUDERBACK: That’s not something that we can appeal. Along the way,
and we’re waiting for…

O’REILLY: Sure you can. You can appeal it to the federal court by
saying this is cruel and unusual punishment. You can go that route.

LOUDERBACK: Well, the problem — well, yes. But we clearly can’t at
this point. He has been held less than 90 days at this point.

O’REILLY: Sure you can. Sure you can. Hey, look; I didn’t even go to
law school. Do you want me to handle this for you guys? You can file a
brief and say look; this is cruel and unusual, violation of his rights to a
speedy trial, he’s being held in a facility he shouldn’t be held in. You
know you can get right up to the Supreme Court if you want. I don’t
know if they’ll hear it but you can do it.

BROWN: No you can’t get right up to the Supreme Court. And secondly,
if we file any motion, that motion will deem total our calculation of
speedy trial, which is 70 days in the federal court. So, we’re in a position
now that any motion — even if we file a motion challenging the fact
they’re hanging him up by his thumbnails, that will in effect total speedy
trial. And it will prevent us from getting a trial date. So we have to at
least wait until those 70 days have elapsed before we can begin to file
the motion.

O’REILLY: Now you’re giving me some mumbo jumbo. That’s fine.
Seventy days, 30 day, I don’t care. But I’m glad you clarified that.

One last thing and we have to run. You guys basically say that he’s
innocent. Right? That’s your line that he’s not guilty?

BROWN: Absolutely.

LOUDERBACK: I think, Bill, that Ashcroft could change a lot of things
but I think every criminal defendant is still presumed innocent.

O’REILLY: All right. He presumed innocent, sure, that’s our system.
But these guys have over 21,000 hours of wiretap, 21,000 hours. So,
that’s going to take a little time to sift through.

BROWN: Not really…

O’REILLY: But counselor, look, you’re welcome anytime to give us an
update on the situation. We want everybody to be treated fairly.
Thank you.